To Be Hopeful: Gwenno on Las Vegas, Irreverent Pop and 'Utopia'
Wednesday, 09 July 2025
Written by Tom Morgan
Photo: Clare Marie Bailey
Gwenno Saunders has lived many lives. A very quick potted history: born in Cardiff to a Cornish-language poet father and Welsh translator mother, she spent her late teens working as a Irish dancer in Las Vegas, before rising to musical fame with noughties indie-pop act The Pipettes while living in London and Brighton.
She then returned to Wales and has gradually developed into the acclaimed, Mercury Prize-nominated solo act we know today. As an example of the esteem with which she’s held in her hometown, a giant mural of her overlooks Womanby Street, the spiritual home of the city’s independent music culture.
It’s the first half of her life story that Gwenno has chosen to explore on her fourth solo album ‘Utopia’, which is set to be released via Heavenly Recordings on July 11. A resplendent, mirror-ball-tinged journey into her deep past, inspired by memories of Las Vegas techno clubs and sticky-floored London pubs, its 10 tracks see her pivoting away from her usual preoccupations with cultural identity and memory to instead look inward, in service of an album that’s as engrossing and multi-layered as the rest of her stellar discography.
Across a wide-ranging conversation, we spoke with Gwenno about her teenage experiences of America, writing in English, Welsh and Cornish, the state of contemporary pop music, along with culture in the late capitalist era.
I love this quote from you about how the “definition of ‘utopia’ is ‘non-place’, rather than ‘ideal place’. How does that tie in with the mood of this album?
“I think it reflects that the record is about these cities I’ve lived in. Utopia was also the name of a nightclub while I was in Las Vegas. It doesn’t exist any more. So it epitomises the life of a venue, which become non-places that no longer exist. That’s why I went with it, it’s from a specific point in my life, when I was 17 and it was the place where I had my first experience of music in a loud room full of people and not feeling alone for the first time.”
What was it like being a 17-year-old in America?
“I’ve realised, 25 years later, that it had a huge impact on me. I remember coming back from Las Vegas and wanting to make music in Wales and people here just thought I was an alien. ‘Welsh Wales’ in particular thought me and my glitter and sequins were very weird.
“In North America, people see Vegas as epitomising a lot of the bad things about America, but that’s why I like it and why I came back to it, with America going through such upheaval right now. It epitomises a lot of things about the country: it’s a gamble, it plays around with morality and it’s hyper-capitalist.”
This is a predominantly English-language album, how does that relate to the themes you’re exploring here?
“It’s about my English-language experiences in Vegas but also London and Brighton. I didn’t have Welsh-language experiences in those places. I definitely never set out to be a campaigner for a language, but I saw that these languages I had were fantastic and I wanted to use them and celebrate them. It’s nice to have different languages because you can change between them like different instruments. It gives you different tools.”
How do different languages shape your writing? Do they affect it?
“It does. Language is tied to your being. Because Welsh and Cornish were my home languages, I always knew I’d be able to tap into something instinctive and pure, in order to work out my voice. From there, they’ve been an influence on how I write in English. There’s so much English language music that it’s quite difficult to not emulate what others are doing. Whereas, having a language different from the mainstream allows you to find a different voice.”
I’ve often wondered what a true Welsh-language music would sound like, like a native genre. Psych-rock seems to be our version.
“Yeah, we do a lot of that, don’t we? Psychedelia is a big part of Welsh music.”
I think it’s something you tap into in a very true and almost ancient way.
“What’s fascinating to me is the history of a language. When I sing or write in Welsh, I can feel the centuries. It’s the same in Cornish, I speak a sort-of Cornish from the Middle Ages, which is interesting, because it means I could talk to someone from 500 years ago. English is fascinating, because class comes into it. Different music reflects different classes. There’s so much tied to every language.”
Regarding that era that you’re writing about here, as someone who was very much there, how do you feel when you hear people today talking about ‘indie sleaze’?
“It was another trigger for me. There’s been a romanticisation of the era. The song 73 is me throwing my hat in the ring and saying, ‘This is what it was like.’ We were all in bands and working in pubs. It was really messy and things went better for you if you had privilege. I witnessed that first hand. But I kind of liked that there was flippancy to that era. Then, post-financial crash, it got static and unimaginative; all the landfill indie bands.”
In the mid-noughties, at the height of that era, it felt like the indie music had so much colour and imagination. There was a sense of futurism to a lot of that new rave stuff.
“Yeah, it was interesting. When I joined The Pipettes and moved down to Brighton, in 2004 or 2005, I can remember the first band I saw there was in this small venue and it was two guys dressed as aliens making electronic music. It was silly and really creative. The Pipettes came from all that. People had interesting, intelligent ways of looking at pop music. We weren’t intimidated or afraid of pop and wanted to chuck bits of it together with a youthful, irreverent attitude.”
I wonder if that period helped influence today’s ‘poptimist’ attitude, where pop music is viewed as much more artistic and often just simply better than it used to be.
“That’s true. The attitude in the noughties was, ‘Wouldn’t it be hilarious to make pop music?’ There was an anarchic approach and that’s a lot of what The Pipettes were about; being irreverent and playful. It wasn’t ironic, it was an experiment.
“I feel like, these days, capitalism is so deeply seeped into us, particularly the generations younger than me. It’s evolved into this idea that being a hyper-capitalist pop star is somehow radical, which I don’t think it is. There’s still good pop music, but there’s no alternative, to quote Mark Fisher’s ideas. I’m not denouncing the craft of it, but there’s no rejection or questioning of the pop world. To be a radical you have to present an alternative.”
Some people have criticised the ‘poptimist’ attitude as a sign that the hyper-capitalists have won.
“I’m not questioning anyone’s want to make that stuff. Y’know, I really like the new Addison Rae record, I think she’s great. But it’s different for me, because I come from a radical Welsh background that’s very socialist. We’re in this weird world, created by tech bros, where we’re told we have creative freedom but we’re just items and brands. There’s no alternative, I can’t find it, Mark Fisher couldn't find it.”
To go back to ‘Utopia’, how does the finished album compare to what you imagined when you were writing and recording it?
“I never know what my records are. Everything is abstract when I'm creating, I trust my deep instincts and intuition. Things interest me and I pursue them. To be hopeful; those kinds of emotions are in the record. It’s a long process; writing, recording, producing and mixing it. I wrote everything on the piano, so that gave it structure. I knew I wanted to make it an MOR, local radio, ‘love hour’ vibe.”
I feel like the album’s sound could be termed ‘minimalist maximalist’. It’s as delicate as your stuff always is, but full of these big string arrangements as well.
“Rhys [Edwards], who produced it, loves classical music and string arrangements. He’s good at being sensitive to the music I make and its delicacy. Being able to make a record that explores vulnerability and to be naked in my expression is because we have this creative partnership that allows for that vulnerability to exist.”
And, finally, what role, if any, did Wales play in the writing and recording of this record?
“Well, so much of it is about my time away from Wales. The first song [London 1757], which is in Welsh, is about migration to London over the centuries. I wanted to start it there. Then the final song [Hireth] is about Cornwall, so it’s about coming home. Conceptually, that’s what I was going for with the track listing. Everything I do is grounded in the Celtic countries that I speak the languages of.
“This record is probably a more full picture of me. Every record is a conversation; me telling you things. This one’s a note to my teenage self, telling her, ‘You were just trying your best.’ Hopefully that’ll be of use to someone else.”
Gwenno’s ‘Utopia’ is out July 11 through Heavenly Recordings.
Gwenno Upcoming Tour Dates are as follows:
Sun July 13 2025 - LIVERPOOL Rough Trade
Mon July 14 2025 - BRISTOL Rough Trade
Wed July 16 2025 - LONDON Lower Third
Thu July 17 2025 - BRIGHTON Resident Music
Wed October 29 2025 - EXETER Exeter Phoenix
Thu October 30 2025 - SOUTHAMPTON Papillon
Fri October 31 2025 - LONDON EartH
Sat November 01 2025 - MANCHESTER White Hotel
Mon November 03 2025 - LEEDS Belgrave Music Hall
Tue November 04 2025 - GLASGOW Nice n' Sleazy
Fri November 07 2025 - BETHESDA Neuadd Ogwen
Sat November 08 2025 - BLACKPOOL Bootleg Social
Sun November 09 2025 - BIRMINGHAM Castle and Falcon
Tue November 11 2025 - CARDIFF New Theatre
Fri November 14 2025 - BRIGHTON St Lukes Church
Sat November 15 2025 - FALMOUTH princess pavilion
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